Comments on: How about a browser for Objective-C? http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/ Cocoa, Mac OS X and maybe a few other things. Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:30:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Tim Johnson http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-8604 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:39:22 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-8604 In F-Script, you write code in the workspace. True that you can't write code in the browser. You can activate methods, though. And you can't create new classes programmatically within F-Script (well, you sort of can now, with the FSClass created by a fellow at the University of Wisconsin). I wholeheartedly agree with you that Cocoa could benefit from having a browser like Smalltalk's. There is the Class Browser in XCode which gets somewhat close... (Project Menu->Class Browser or Cmd-Shift-C). And yes I miss the actual BROWSER browser from Project Builder in NeXTSTEP/OpenStep. See screenshot above #25 here: http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Technical/HTMLEditor/HTMLEditor-1.html One problem with the whole idea is that Objective-C is not as dynamic as Smalltalk. It would be cool if you could recompile a class while your program is running and see the effects of your recompile. In Smalltalk this is simple. In Objective-C... well... there are NSBundles... and maybe some kind of hack could get it going. Also Smalltalk groups methods into categories, which Objective-C sort of supports, but few people use. (I probably have my terminology wrong here, between Categories and Protocols). In the above-mentioned screenshot you'll see where @Document is listed... that's a "category" sort of, allowing you to sort the methods in your class like in Smalltalk. It doesn't see to be hardly used at all anymore in XCode...? Anyway if you would like to talk about this concept more please email me. It's something that fascinates me... I really don't think that XCode/ProjectBuilder/InterfaceBuilder are the be-all-to-end-all of Cocoa development. Heck, the simple addition of F-Script Anywhere into a program I'm writing makes my development time 500% faster, since it allows me to inspect running objects without having to do a heck of a lot of NSLogs or creating user interface elements... In F-Script, you write code in the workspace. True that you can’t write code in the browser. You can activate methods, though. And you can’t create new classes programmatically within F-Script (well, you sort of can now, with the FSClass created by a fellow at the University of Wisconsin).

I wholeheartedly agree with you that Cocoa could benefit from having a browser like Smalltalk’s. There is the Class Browser in XCode which gets somewhat close… (Project Menu->Class Browser or Cmd-Shift-C).

And yes I miss the actual BROWSER browser from Project Builder in NeXTSTEP/OpenStep.

See screenshot above #25 here:

http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Technical/HTMLEditor/HTMLEditor-1.html

One problem with the whole idea is that Objective-C is not as dynamic as Smalltalk. It would be cool if you could recompile a class while your program is running and see the effects of your recompile. In Smalltalk this is simple. In Objective-C… well… there are NSBundles… and maybe some kind of hack could get it going.

Also Smalltalk groups methods into categories, which Objective-C sort of supports, but few people use. (I probably have my terminology wrong here, between Categories and Protocols). In the above-mentioned screenshot you’ll see where @Document is listed… that’s a “category” sort of, allowing you to sort the methods in your class like in Smalltalk. It doesn’t see to be hardly used at all anymore in XCode…?

Anyway if you would like to talk about this concept more please email me. It’s something that fascinates me… I really don’t think that XCode/ProjectBuilder/InterfaceBuilder are the be-all-to-end-all of Cocoa development. Heck, the simple addition of F-Script Anywhere into a program I’m writing makes my development time 500% faster, since it allows me to inspect running objects without having to do a heck of a lot of NSLogs or creating user interface elements…

]]> by: Matt Ronge http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6995 Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:00:14 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6995 Maybe I'm wrong, but it appears that you can't write code in the F-script browser? Maybe I’m wrong, but it appears that you can’t write code in the F-script browser?

]]> by: Erik Buck http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6992 Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:03:10 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6992 Um, F-Script ? http://www.fscript.org/ including "the most terrific object browser on earth!" http://www.fscript.org/documentation/ExploringCocoaWithFScript/index.htm Um, F-Script ? http://www.fscript.org/
including “the most terrific object browser on earth!”

http://www.fscript.org/documentation/ExploringCocoaWithFScript/index.htm

]]> by: Matt Ronge http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6937 Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:15:46 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6937 Riley: I thought I remembered a Smalltalk-ish browser in Project Builder. I mentioned it at MacWarriors this Saturday, but no one seemed to remember it. Good to know I'm not crazy. Riley: I thought I remembered a Smalltalk-ish browser in Project Builder. I mentioned it at MacWarriors this Saturday, but no one seemed to remember it. Good to know I’m not crazy.

]]> by: yatsu http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6917 Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:45:49 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6917 I recommend Cocoa Browser SN: http://numata.designed.jp/?cmd=read&page=Cocoa Browser SN&lang=en You cannot do coding in it but it is very useful to browse API documents. I recommend Cocoa Browser SN:
http://numata.designed.jp/?cmd=read&page=Cocoa Browser SN&lang=en

You cannot do coding in it but it is very useful to browse API documents.

]]> by: Nicholas Riley http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6914 Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:33:25 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2007/04/14/how-about-a-browser-for-objective-c/#comment-6914 The old Project Builder (which was shipped as ProjectBuilderWO) looked much more like a Smalltalk browser in that it had files, classes, methods, etc. in a column view at the top. I miss it a lot, even though it didn't go as far as a Smalltalk browser. There are also lots of other cool things you can do once you have a browser infrastructure, like the <a href="http://www.mindspring.com/~dway/smalltalk/whisker.html" rel="nofollow">Whisker browser</a>, which color-codes windows by class and automatically lays things out for you if you've got multiple methods you're trying to look at. It's really cool. The old Project Builder (which was shipped as ProjectBuilderWO) looked much more like a Smalltalk browser in that it had files, classes, methods, etc. in a column view at the top. I miss it a lot, even though it didn’t go as far as a Smalltalk browser.

There are also lots of other cool things you can do once you have a browser infrastructure, like the Whisker browser, which color-codes windows by class and automatically lays things out for you if you’ve got multiple methods you’re trying to look at. It’s really cool.

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