Comments on: Where are the kick ass e-mail clients? http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/ Cocoa, Mac OS X and maybe a few other things. Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:06:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: joebob http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-5552 Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:57:35 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-5552 I never understood the allure of "connected" IMAP email in a world of disconnecting laptop users. These days it's a lot easier to get wifi, but when laptop purchases exploded 5-7 years ago, most people connected by modem or lan. It was pretty easy to sit in the park with your POP mail, review everything you downloaded, write a bunch of messages, then connect and send once you get home. With IMAP, there was no access to the recently downloaded emails. Now we have wifi in some parks and many people have wifi in their living room, so they can do IMAP while physically disconnected. Clearly I am all for disconnected clients. I am going to check out Glen Perez's suggestion about using Entourage to save email locally with an IMAP setup. As to Joe and his comments that users are content with the stufff that is available; well it may be true that people put up with it, but they are complaining every day to and at their computer and email programs. Email is the most used application in the world, it should be getting a lot more attention in so many areas: UI, usability, functionality, features, in addition to building in full word processing capability, and building new protocols and standards for true disconneted clients. I never understood the allure of “connected” IMAP email in a world of disconnecting laptop users. These days it’s a lot easier to get wifi, but when laptop purchases exploded 5-7 years ago, most people connected by modem or lan. It was pretty easy to sit in the park with your POP mail, review everything you downloaded, write a bunch of messages, then connect and send once you get home. With IMAP, there was no access to the recently downloaded emails. Now we have wifi in some parks and many people have wifi in their living room, so they can do IMAP while physically disconnected.

Clearly I am all for disconnected clients. I am going to check out Glen Perez’s suggestion about using Entourage to save email locally with an IMAP setup.

As to Joe and his comments that users are content with the stufff that is available; well it may be true that people put up with it, but they are complaining every day to and at their computer and email programs. Email is the most used application in the world, it should be getting a lot more attention in so many areas: UI, usability, functionality, features, in addition to building in full word processing capability, and building new protocols and standards for true disconneted clients.

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]]> by: katalog http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-2061 Sat, 14 Oct 2006 10:51:13 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-2061 I would love to see a way to tie a particular “From” address to a particular email account and to a particular user/set of users. I have 3 accounts setup in Mail.app with 5 different addresses. Certain recipients only get email from me from particular addresses and it would be nice to automate that. I would love to see a way to tie a particular “From” address to a particular email account and to a particular user/set of users. I have 3 accounts setup in Mail.app with 5 different addresses. Certain recipients only get email from me from particular addresses and it would be nice to automate that.

]]> by: Curtis King http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-768 Sun, 09 Jul 2006 16:50:53 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-768 See RFC4551 an IMAP Extension for Conditional STORE Operation or Quick Flag Changes Resynchronization. Also, there are a number lemonade drafts which will help clients quickly reconnect and get notifications. See RFC4551 an IMAP Extension for Conditional STORE Operation or Quick Flag Changes Resynchronization. Also, there are a number lemonade drafts which will help clients quickly reconnect and get notifications.

]]> by: Matt Ronge http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-528 Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:06:04 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-528 Chris, Decisions like which account is used to respond to an e-mail address I want to put into a series of Lua scripts. That way, users can (or atleast the more technically minded) users can customize that behavior. Chris,

Decisions like which account is used to respond to an e-mail address I want to put into a series of Lua scripts. That way, users can (or atleast the more technically minded) users can customize that behavior.

]]> by: Hoa http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-516 Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:40:48 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-516 synchronization server needs either an infinite disk space on server and/or much computation. Maybe you might want to start to write a spec for a mail synchronization server to encounter the problems. synchronization server needs either an infinite disk space on server and/or much computation.
Maybe you might want to start to write a spec for a mail synchronization server to encounter the problems.

]]> by: Chris http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-515 Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:08:54 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-515 I would love to see a way to tie a particular "From" address to a particular email account and to a particular user/set of users. I have 3 accounts setup in Mail.app with 5 different "From" addresses. Certain recipients only get email from me from particular addresses and it would be nice to automate that. I would love to see a way to tie a particular “From” address to a particular email account and to a particular user/set of users. I have 3 accounts setup in Mail.app with 5 different “From” addresses. Certain recipients only get email from me from particular addresses and it would be nice to automate that.

]]> by: David Kellam http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-433 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:38:36 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-433 What sort of "other problems" would be introduced by a synchronisation server? It seems like an elegant solution to me (but I have never coded a mail app). What sort of “other problems” would be introduced by a synchronisation server? It seems like an elegant solution to me (but I have never coded a mail app).

]]> by: Glenn Perez http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-432 Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:05:48 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-432 Matt, I look forward to seeing and using Kiwi. I have never liked Mail. I am not not a Microsoft fan but I have to admit that Entourage is the best most flexible email client availaible for the Mac right now. I deployed it for a company in which I was a Macintosh System Administrator and it worked quite well. One feature that I could not live without that Entourage supports is a leave on server setting when you setup an IMAP account. This allows me to locally view, respond to, and save all emails from the mail server but everything is still left on the mail server until I delete or change it locally. For example a locally deleted email is deleted on the mail server the next time I connect to the mail server. This means that I do not have to backup my emails because they are all store in two places; my computer and the mail server at all times. This setup also allows me to connect to my email server from any computer on any platform and view all of my email though a webmail interface. Good luck with Kiwi, I would love to be able to use something other then a Microsoft product! Glenn Perez Matt, I look forward to seeing and using Kiwi. I have never liked Mail. I am not not a Microsoft fan but I have to admit that Entourage is the best most flexible email client availaible for the Mac right now. I deployed it for a company in which I was a Macintosh System Administrator and it worked quite well. One feature that I could not live without that Entourage supports is a leave on server setting when you setup an IMAP account. This allows me to locally view, respond to, and save all emails from the mail server but everything is still left on the mail server until I delete or change it locally. For example a locally deleted email is deleted on the mail server the next time I connect to the mail server. This means that I do not have to backup my emails because they are all store in two places; my computer and the mail server at all times. This setup also allows me to connect to my email server from any computer on any platform and view all of my email though a webmail interface.

Good luck with Kiwi, I would love to be able to use something other then a Microsoft product!

Glenn Perez

]]> by: kael http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-430 Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:43:10 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-430 Get a look at <a href="http://dave.cridland.net/acap/polymer.html" rel="nofollow">Polymer</a> a very fast cross-plateform IMAP client, currently in developement. Amongst other things, it only fetches what is needed, is very fast and supports tags. Get a look at Polymer a very fast cross-plateform IMAP client, currently in developement.

Amongst other things, it only fetches what is needed, is very fast and supports tags.

]]> by: Frog Masterson and His Dog Spot http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-417 Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:05:05 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-417 How about a checkbox in the preferences ("Never leave mail on the server") which causes all mail on an IMAP account to always be downloaded to the client and then immediately deleted and purged from the server as soon as it's written and comitted to the local disk? Treating IMAP as a glorified POP3 eliminates the remote flag updates problem, at least. Reasoning: Many people use IMAP because they don't have a choice (thanks, Microsoft Exchange!) and would prefer POP3. (Other people want the promised 'convenience' and 'benefits' of IMAP's online mode, but, being in the former camp -- and having tried out every email client available with IMAP on the Mac for the past ten years -- I keep wondering what's wrong with those particular people. I mean, let's all just chew on glass for a while.) How about a checkbox in the preferences (”Never leave mail on the server”) which causes all mail on an IMAP account to always be downloaded to the client and then immediately deleted and purged from the server as soon as it’s written and comitted to the local disk? Treating IMAP as a glorified POP3 eliminates the remote flag updates problem, at least.

Reasoning: Many people use IMAP because they don’t have a choice (thanks, Microsoft Exchange!) and would prefer POP3. (Other people want the promised ‘convenience’ and ‘benefits’ of IMAP’s online mode, but, being in the former camp — and having tried out every email client available with IMAP on the Mac for the past ten years — I keep wondering what’s wrong with those particular people. I mean, let’s all just chew on glass for a while.)

]]> by: Hoa http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-391 Tue, 06 Jun 2006 12:04:57 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-391 Now, we have libraries that will simply development of imap clients and IMAP already exists. We shouldn't try to invent something people will never use since IMAP already fits the needs. Though, you're right. It's not as simple as POP. What you are proposing is to keep on the server a client state information, which may not scale. A synchronization server is not that easy to write. An IMAP server is not that much complicated to write. Your idea of synchronization server for email will introduce some other problems. Now, we have libraries that will simply development of imap clients and IMAP already exists. We shouldn’t try to invent something people will never use since IMAP already fits the needs.
Though, you’re right. It’s not as simple as POP.
What you are proposing is to keep on the server a client state information, which may not scale. A synchronization server is not that easy to write. An IMAP server is not that much complicated to write. Your idea of synchronization server for email will introduce some other problems.

]]> by: Joe http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-387 Tue, 06 Jun 2006 04:14:07 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-387 I think "most" people haven't attacked the email client issue because of Microsoft outlook. That obviously doesn't apply to Mac users so well, but on the PC side of things they've had the email client thing pretty sewn up with a "it's mostly functional" piece of software that in my mind typifies the crap that most PC users are willing to put up with. Buy one? Why on earth would you? This other thing that comes with my machine does pretty much what I want and it's "free". Mail.app isn't great, but it mostly works. There's plenty of space to improve, but instead of people wanting more functionality, the vast majority have been happy with less - the whole web email client thing. So yeah - it's hard, and there's mostly-functional stuff out there. I thing that's why there aren't any kick ass email clients out there. Well, until you're done, I suppose. :-) -joe I think “most” people haven’t attacked the email client issue because of Microsoft outlook. That obviously doesn’t apply to Mac users so well, but on the PC side of things they’ve had the email client thing pretty sewn up with a “it’s mostly functional” piece of software that in my mind typifies the crap that most PC users are willing to put up with.

Buy one? Why on earth would you? This other thing that comes with my machine does pretty much what I want and it’s “free”.

Mail.app isn’t great, but it mostly works. There’s plenty of space to improve, but instead of people wanting more functionality, the vast majority have been happy with less - the whole web email client thing.

So yeah - it’s hard, and there’s mostly-functional stuff out there. I thing that’s why there aren’t any kick ass email clients out there.

Well, until you’re done, I suppose. :-)

-joe

]]> by: Kevin http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-378 Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:12:35 +0000 http://www.theronge.com/2006/06/05/where-are-the-kick-ass-e-mail-clients/#comment-378 I thought you were writing it? ;) I thought you were writing it? ;)

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